Humans become less able to carry loads as they age, due to the inevitable deterioration of joint cartilage, and reduced bone mass. No amount of exercise or training can reverse these deteriorations (but the rate of deterioration can be slowed). Even if cardiovascular and strength fitness are improved, joint capacity, and bone strength remain limiting factors for backpacking.
At some point, weight becomes risk, too (Risk of falling, stress injuries, fatigue-induced faulty decisions, extra food to power all that weight up the hill). People heal more slowly as they age, so avoiding injury has bigger rewards. Previous injuries to a joint or tendon may forever reduce its load-carrying capacity.
Anticipating every possible condition is good training for beginners. But carrying gear for every possible condition is not the desired result of anticipation; it leads to overloads. Experts prepare for what they will probably encounter, and use the best possible gear for the job, while avoiding duplication, single-purpose items, over-preparation, and one-more-thing-itis.
Use your experience in campsite selection, anticipation of weather, and improving nutrition, as substitutes for carrying too much heavy gear. Consider the weight penalty from preparing for unlikely conditions. Using the brain more enables one to carry less gear. Experts reduce risk of trouble by using judgment, anticipation, avoidance, and flexibility, not by carrying every possible piece of gear.
Plan on wearing darn everything you brought inside the sleeping bag during the coldest anticipated night.
Eliminate unnecessary items, for a no $ improvement.
Eliminate layers of liner fabric if possible, as they are heavy, but add little to insulation. Consider carrying one higher-loft garment instead of layering two lower-loft garments. See notes on the "python parka" below.
2015-06-11
2015-06-10
Lightweight Tactics
Weigh everything carefully (a postage scale will work; if necessary, use the post office lobby at night). You might be surprised how much that extra pair of underwear, socks, or long johns weighs!
Make gear lists, and use them when packing. Weigh everything! Make food lists, and use them when packing. Weigh food portions and fuel (if fuel is needed) Take lists with you on the trip, so you can accumulate notes on what is needed or not needed next time.
Eliminating unnecessary items costs no $. Using a sleeping bag wrapped over the shoulders morning and evening can substitute for carrying that additional jacket. (See "Python Parka" below)
Carry no redundant footwear. Wear a fresh pair of socks inside loosely-laced trail footwear around camp, instead of carrying additional camp shoes. For keeping footgear dry while fording streams, consider using plastic bags from the Sunday newspaper over boots, or socks.
Plan on wearing darn everything you brought inside the sleeping bag on the coldest anticipated condition. (One can always do pushups or situps in the bag to warm up if it turns unexpectedly cold). Be sure to eat enough high calorie foods before sleeping to fuel warmth all night. Sleeping nude in a bag just slimes it up with perspiration, lotion, bug repellant, sunscreen, etc, reducing loft, and installing scents interesting to nosy large carnivores.
Don't carry synthetic fleece ("pile") garments - they are far heavier and less compressible than alternative insulation.
Consider carefully the alternatives to heavy, large, failure-prone water filters. (One must carry tablets anyway, as backup in case the filter fails). Iodine has poor shelf life after opening the container. Chlorine Dioxide tablets (AquaMira, etc) are a great alternative.
Carry only one pair of footwear. Change socks often. You can wear them loosely laced with fresh socks as camp shoes.
Tents: consider carefully if a tent is needed. Is carrying the rain fly necessary? Will a single wall tent do? Will a shelter without floor or walls on all sides do? Can hiking poles or local materials serve as tent poles? Will a bivvy sack do? Is just using a mesh bag over the head for insect protection sufficient, saving the weight and space of carrying a shelter?
Share gear where possible when traveling with a group: stoves, tents, water filters, emergency gear, first aid kits, bear hang line, emergency rations, fire starters, GPS, cell phone, extra batteries, emergency locator beacon / SPOT.
If you must carry batteries, use lithium for lighter weight, longer life.
Why carry a knife? Cutting food in the backcountry risks injury; cuts on hands are hard to keep uninfected. Scalpels from first aid kit will do in a pinch.
Linings, thread, and zippers comprise at least half of the weight of most insulating garments and sleeping bags, yet add almost nothing to their R value. Eliminate layers of lining if possible. (Carry one higher-loft garment instead of layering two lower-loft garments?) The concept of layering, as taught by retailers to car-campers and day hikers, is for applications where weight and compressibility are not primary factors.
GoreTex is heavy, expensive, and inadequately breathable for most conditions. It is nearly irrelevant to desert backpacking. Consider lighter weight fabrics and garments.
For some trips, the coldest time is while moving, due to wind chill, crossing ridges, climbing peaks, etc. Leave the wind-barrier layer (jacket, pants, gloves, hat) behind only after careful consideration of weather forecasts.
Become an expert at weather anticipation. Ref: nws.noaa.gov Consider the weight penalty from preparing for unlikely conditions.
Don't carry too much water - it is the highest density item in a backpack (unless one is packin').
Soda bottles re-purposed as backpacking water bottles are lightweight, tough, collapsible, free no $, green-conscious, and enable inspection of the interior for undesirable particles in water. Using different color screw tops aids in remembering which bottle contents are in what stage of purification treatment. Tie a lanyard on each bottle to aid in carrying to/from water source, and to lash empties from blowing away. Pre-drill holes in a spare top to create a shower.
Don't carry too much food. Use lists from previous trips to refine choices and quantities. Calories are the priority - for cookless meals the average density should exceed 100 calories per oz (= 28 grams). Celery may help prevent bowel disease years from now, but it is mainly water, and has no calories, so will just slow one's rate of climb up today's mountain. If using cook-less meals, 1.5 pounds of high calorie food per day is a good starting point.
Choose the lightweight pack last, after you have a good idea of how light and small your gear is. Only rarely will a pack larger than 50 liters (3100 cu in), or carrying capacity of more than 13 kg (30 lbs) be needed; there are plenty of choices weighing less than 0.9 kg (2 lbs).
Make gear lists, and use them when packing. Weigh everything! Make food lists, and use them when packing. Weigh food portions and fuel (if fuel is needed) Take lists with you on the trip, so you can accumulate notes on what is needed or not needed next time.
Eliminating unnecessary items costs no $. Using a sleeping bag wrapped over the shoulders morning and evening can substitute for carrying that additional jacket. (See "Python Parka" below)
Carry no redundant footwear. Wear a fresh pair of socks inside loosely-laced trail footwear around camp, instead of carrying additional camp shoes. For keeping footgear dry while fording streams, consider using plastic bags from the Sunday newspaper over boots, or socks.
Plan on wearing darn everything you brought inside the sleeping bag on the coldest anticipated condition. (One can always do pushups or situps in the bag to warm up if it turns unexpectedly cold). Be sure to eat enough high calorie foods before sleeping to fuel warmth all night. Sleeping nude in a bag just slimes it up with perspiration, lotion, bug repellant, sunscreen, etc, reducing loft, and installing scents interesting to nosy large carnivores.
Don't carry synthetic fleece ("pile") garments - they are far heavier and less compressible than alternative insulation.
Consider carefully the alternatives to heavy, large, failure-prone water filters. (One must carry tablets anyway, as backup in case the filter fails). Iodine has poor shelf life after opening the container. Chlorine Dioxide tablets (AquaMira, etc) are a great alternative.
Carry only one pair of footwear. Change socks often. You can wear them loosely laced with fresh socks as camp shoes.
Tents: consider carefully if a tent is needed. Is carrying the rain fly necessary? Will a single wall tent do? Will a shelter without floor or walls on all sides do? Can hiking poles or local materials serve as tent poles? Will a bivvy sack do? Is just using a mesh bag over the head for insect protection sufficient, saving the weight and space of carrying a shelter?
Share gear where possible when traveling with a group: stoves, tents, water filters, emergency gear, first aid kits, bear hang line, emergency rations, fire starters, GPS, cell phone, extra batteries, emergency locator beacon / SPOT.
If you must carry batteries, use lithium for lighter weight, longer life.
Why carry a knife? Cutting food in the backcountry risks injury; cuts on hands are hard to keep uninfected. Scalpels from first aid kit will do in a pinch.
Linings, thread, and zippers comprise at least half of the weight of most insulating garments and sleeping bags, yet add almost nothing to their R value. Eliminate layers of lining if possible. (Carry one higher-loft garment instead of layering two lower-loft garments?) The concept of layering, as taught by retailers to car-campers and day hikers, is for applications where weight and compressibility are not primary factors.
GoreTex is heavy, expensive, and inadequately breathable for most conditions. It is nearly irrelevant to desert backpacking. Consider lighter weight fabrics and garments.
For some trips, the coldest time is while moving, due to wind chill, crossing ridges, climbing peaks, etc. Leave the wind-barrier layer (jacket, pants, gloves, hat) behind only after careful consideration of weather forecasts.
Become an expert at weather anticipation. Ref: nws.noaa.gov Consider the weight penalty from preparing for unlikely conditions.
Don't carry too much water - it is the highest density item in a backpack (unless one is packin').
Soda bottles re-purposed as backpacking water bottles are lightweight, tough, collapsible, free no $, green-conscious, and enable inspection of the interior for undesirable particles in water. Using different color screw tops aids in remembering which bottle contents are in what stage of purification treatment. Tie a lanyard on each bottle to aid in carrying to/from water source, and to lash empties from blowing away. Pre-drill holes in a spare top to create a shower.
Don't carry too much food. Use lists from previous trips to refine choices and quantities. Calories are the priority - for cookless meals the average density should exceed 100 calories per oz (= 28 grams). Celery may help prevent bowel disease years from now, but it is mainly water, and has no calories, so will just slow one's rate of climb up today's mountain. If using cook-less meals, 1.5 pounds of high calorie food per day is a good starting point.
Choose the lightweight pack last, after you have a good idea of how light and small your gear is. Only rarely will a pack larger than 50 liters (3100 cu in), or carrying capacity of more than 13 kg (30 lbs) be needed; there are plenty of choices weighing less than 0.9 kg (2 lbs).
2015-06-09
Gear: Links
Gear: Links
rev 2015-06-11
Backpacking Light gear reviews
"pretzel" sleeping pads by Klymit.com
ultimatesurvival.com
including video on how to use signal mirror
Rescue Flash™ Signal Mirror
REI signal mirror
Therm-olite Rescue bivvy
REI Thermo-lite Rescue bivvy Rescue bivvy
Spark-Lite™ Firestarter and Tinder-
Quik™
Pak Lite 9 volt lights
SPOT GPS integrated digital rescue transmitter
NeoAir mattress
McNett Tenacious Tape for repairs of inflatables
REI repair kits for inflatables
Gossamer Gear closed cell foam Sleeping Pads
Sorbothane shoe insert ultra graphite arch
MontBell sleeping bags super stretch 800 down
MontBell Breeze Dry-Tec U.L. Sleeping Bag Cover
MontBell U.L. Sleeping Bag Cover
TarpTent.com
Black Diamond One Shot shelter
Montane Fast and Light Featherlite wind layers
Innovate footwear
Innovate packs
REI Flash 65 Pack 4000 cubic inches 65 liters 32-50 oz
Granite Gear Vapor Trail Pack 3600 cubic inches 59 liters 37 oz
ULA Equipment Catalyst Pack 4600 cu in 75 liters
brasslite.com Brasslite Turbo I-D alcohol stove (2 oz)
mini Trangia 28 Alcohol Stove (6 oz) plus pot (3 oz)
Mountain Laurel Designs Packs
GossamerGear.com
Potable Aqua water purification
CampSaver.com
rev 2015-06-11
Backpacking Light gear reviews
"pretzel" sleeping pads by Klymit.com
ultimatesurvival.com
including video on how to use signal mirror
Rescue Flash™ Signal Mirror
REI signal mirror
Therm-olite Rescue bivvy
REI Thermo-lite Rescue bivvy Rescue bivvy
Spark-Lite™ Firestarter and Tinder-
Quik™
Pak Lite 9 volt lights
SPOT GPS integrated digital rescue transmitter
NeoAir mattress
McNett Tenacious Tape for repairs of inflatables
REI repair kits for inflatables
Gossamer Gear closed cell foam Sleeping Pads
Sorbothane shoe insert ultra graphite arch
MontBell sleeping bags super stretch 800 down
MontBell Breeze Dry-Tec U.L. Sleeping Bag Cover
MontBell U.L. Sleeping Bag Cover
TarpTent.com
Black Diamond One Shot shelter
Montane Fast and Light Featherlite wind layers
Innovate footwear
Innovate packs
REI Flash 65 Pack 4000 cubic inches 65 liters 32-50 oz
Granite Gear Vapor Trail Pack 3600 cubic inches 59 liters 37 oz
ULA Equipment Catalyst Pack 4600 cu in 75 liters
brasslite.com Brasslite Turbo I-D alcohol stove (2 oz)
mini Trangia 28 Alcohol Stove (6 oz) plus pot (3 oz)
Mountain Laurel Designs Packs
GossamerGear.com
Potable Aqua water purification
CampSaver.com
2015-06-08
Sleeping Pads
Sleeping Pads
Though the NeoAir R value has been improved since I bought mine, circa 2009, the weight has not decreased. Seeking to lower pad weight below 66" NeoAir (14 oz) , I auditioned two "pretzel" pads on a fall trip in the Panamint Mountains of Eastern California. Pretzel pads have the advantage of allowing the loft from sleeping bag to billow out and down into the pretzel gaps, instead of being compressed against a sleeping pad surface.
I tried:
Klymit Inertia X-Lite (42" x 18" x 1.5") with manufacturer quoted weight of 6.1 oz (7.9 oz with pump, stuff sack, and patch kit).
Klymit Inertia X-Frame (72" x 18" x 1.5") with manufacturer quoted weight of 9.1 oz (10.6 oz with pump, stuff sack, and patch kit).
Sleeping warmth was barely adequate for the temps encountered at 6300' MSL, when combined with lightweight sleeping bag (MontBell U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger #7), Thermolite bivvy, and polypro long johns, plus light down jacket, and hat. With 6 oz more bag loft, or a warmer jacket, there would have been no need for the bivvy sack. I did not carry or use the pump in either trial, as I was able to adequately top-up the pads by lung power . Both pads are significantly smaller when deflated than NeoAir.
More at:
Klymit.com
=====================================
The sleeping pad Ihave used for 5+ years (with no leaks) is Thermarest NeoAir.
I was driven to improve my pad due to lack of comfort with other systems. Besides improved comfort, benefits to this pad include smaller rolled size, lighter weight, and less need to "groom" sleeping site for lumps.
It is just such a shame that an item (sleeping pad) used for only one purpose, and for less than 1/3 the time has to be so heavy! So the NeoAir is an important innovation *if* one can take the risk of non-repairable rip. (This is why I carry two pads - the inflatable, plus a closed cell foam 0.25" or 0.375" thick pad. The closed cell foam pad only adds 4-5 oz, and is useful for sitting on during meal stops, plus substitutes for the ground sheet under a tent.
I have below embedded loosely organized reviews of technology and specs. It contains comparative R values and weights and patch kit discussion. (No patch kit or stuff sack is included with NeoAir)
I made a container for NeoAir from slicing the tops off clear poly bottles (one liter soda bottles), and making a torpedo-style case by fitting the two bottom sections together. This protects the NeoAir far better than any stuff sack can, is lighter, cheaper, and can serve as a cup.
=====================================
I have decided to replace my 48" NeoAir with their 66" or 72" NeoAir, for reasons of better neck / pillow alignment; I am willing to carry the incremental +4 or 5 oz.
48" NeoAir list price is: $119
66" NeoAir list price is: $139
72" NeoAir list price is: $149
In the late May 2009, I looked at a few vendors for the 66" or 72" NeoAir at prices below list, and found no bargains. But I haven't made an exhaustive search, so if you find a vendor with stock and attractive pricing, please let me know!!
I got an excellent price from the following vendor when I purchased in early May 2009
http://www.backcountry.com/store/CAS0503/Therm-a-Rest-Neoair-Sleeping-Pad.html
the 20% off coupon that worked then: coupon code "475-7-YZRKU" @ CHECKOUT
These vendors seem to have some sizes in stock at list price (there may be coupons that work, but I don't know where they are):
http://www.rei.com/search?query=neoair
http://www.intermountaintraders.com/outdoors/sleeping-pads/thermarest-neoair-sleeping-pad/
http://www.backcountryedge.com/therm_a_rest-neoair.aspx?
Here are some pillow ideas:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=20906
Here is an additional patching method idea:
http://www.mcnett.com/Tenacious-Tape-Repair-Tape-P139.aspx
http://www.rei.com/product/783045
=====================================
NeoAir Dimensions:
[S] 20 x 47in (51 x 119cm); [M] 20 x 66in (51 x 168cm); [R] 20 x 72in (51 x 183cm); [L] 25 x 77in (63 x 196cm)
Rolled Size:
[S] 9 x 3.3in (23 x 9cm); [M, R] 9 x 4in (23 x 10cm); [L] 11 x 4.5in (28 x 11cm)
Weight:
[S] 9oz (260g); [M] 13oz (370g); [R] 14oz (410g); [L] 1lb 3oz (550g)
=======================================
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:55:21 -0700
Looks like everyone wants NeoAir, and everyone is out of stock. Just as well, because I need to prove the comfort of such a system to myself. This I can do with field tests using what I already have. When I have proved that 2.5" tube-inflatable is more comfortable for me than other systems, then I can reduce the weight of 2.5" tube-inflatable system by replacing Insul Mat Max Thermo 3/4 ( 17 oz ) with NeoAir Small ( 9 oz ), which will be a ratio of $20 / oz
I think I will soldier fwd with
Insul Mat Max Thermo 3/4 ( 17 oz) supplanted with 1/8" foam ( 2 oz )
perhaps improved to
Insul Mat Max Thermo 3/4 ( 17 oz) supplanted with 1/4" foam ( 4 oz )
I like the more compact size of rolled NeoAir
=======================================
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 21:33:16 -0700
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=15373&skip_to_post=160237#160237
NeoAir vs BA Aircore, good pics, first-hand knowledge.
===============================
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Nick wrote:
It is just such a shame that an item (sleeping pad) used for only one purpose, and for less than 1/3 the time has to be so heavy!
Choking on the $120 price for Thermarest NeoAir, I set out to find our the R value of the Insul Mat Max Thermo 3/4 x 20" x 48" x 2.5" ( 17 oz) that I already own. R Value ain't published anywhere. It is certainly less than the NeoAir (R 2.5 ), but at least that of Big Agnes Air Core ( R 1.0 ) . I did find some info (but not R value) here:
http://www.pacoutdoor.com/
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/pacific-outdoor-equipment/insulmat-max-thermo/
From the large adobe.pdf downloaded from pacoutdoor.com, I find their current product line includes this model Ether Thermo 6, which is slightly warmer than the Max Thermo 3/4 that I own, due to addition of some fuzz on the inside of the tubes:
Ether Thermo 6
2.5 inches of air cushioning and a layer of Air Loft Thermo insulation provide maximum thickness and comfort in a package that folds and rolls to almost disappear in your pack. 50D top and 70D bottom fabrics provide durability and lightweight protection from the little things that can puncture and abrade.
Item No. Size (in) Size (cm) Weight Color
ET678 20 x 78 x 2.5 51 x 198 x 6.0 675 g (24 oz) Carrot Long Regular 2/3
ET672 20 x 72 x 2.5 51 x 183 x 6.0 623 g (22 oz) Carrot
ET648 20 x 48 x 2.5 51 x 122 x 6.0 416 g (15 oz) Carrot
I think the NeoAir is probably superior in R value to Ether Thermo 6, because the tubes are shorter *, are subdivided internally, and there is some sort of heat reflective barrier in there (* Air inside tubes moving due to thermal differential, simply has less tube distance to roll around in). I don't believe ThermaRest's claim that the NeoAir is "3 times warmer than an un-insulated air mattress" Ref:
http://www.getoutdoors.com/goblog/uploads/neo_air.jpg,
9 oz NeoAir can be supplanted with 1/8 foam (2 oz)
But being a bit frugal, the combo I try next will be: Insul Mat Max Thermo 3/4 ( 17 oz) supplanted with 1/8 foam (2 oz) as compared to 32 oz combo [ Z rest and REI Core Light ] I carried this past w/e.
If that ain't enough, I may go with Big Agnes Insulated Air core (R 4.1, 22 oz) supplanted with 1/8 foam (2 oz)
http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Specs/Pad
============================================
NeoAir(tm)
Comparison Guide
AVAILABLE APRIL 2009: The NeoAir mattress represents the world's most advanced engineering in ultralight comfort. Beyond being the lightest air mattress available, we've utilized two patent-pending internal technologies, making it up to three times warmer and far more stable than any other uninsulated air mattress available. And when it comes to space in your pack, you'll appreciate that it's no bigger than a one-liter water bottle. Revolutionary by design, the gossamer NeoAir mattress makes comfort one less thing you'll need to compromise when traveling Fast & Light.
° Ultralight & Compact: Weighs just 14oz. and packs down to the size of a 1-liter water bottle.
° Unrivaled Warmth: Our patent-pending reflective barrier returns warmth to your body and reduces heat loss to the ground, keeping you three times warmer than any other uninsulated air mattress
° Sleep Stable: When inflated, patent-pending Triangular Core Matrix technology creates an internal truss system, resulting in the most stable non-self-inflating air mattresses.
° Lasting Performance: Achieving thermal efficiency without down or fiber insulation means the NeoAir can be inflated directly without the added weight of a pump, or worrying about exhaled moisture wetting insulation and decreasing performance.
Large Regular Medium Small
Weight 1 lbs 3 oz/550 g 14 oz/410 g 13 oz/370 g 9 oz/260 g
Inflated size 25 x 77 in 20 x 72 in 20 x 66 in 20 x 47 in
Rolled Size 11 x 4.5 in/28 x 11 cm 9 x 4.0 in/23 x 10 cm 9 x 4.0 in/23 x 10 cm 9 x 3.3 in/23 x 9 cm
R-Value 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5
Thickness 2.5 in/6.3 cm 2.5 in/6.3 cm 2.5 in/6.3 cm 2.5 in/6.3 cm
Suggested
Price (U.S.) $169.95 $149.95 $139.95 $119.95
===============================
We all need better, softer sleeping pads...
I was carrying a Z Rest waffle foam pad (16 oz) and a 1.5" x 48" REI Foam Core inflatable pad ( 14 oz) which up to 28 oz, and I am warm enough, but the combo is still not soft enough, even on sand!
http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Specs/Pad
nothing more than 1.5" in foam, 66" or shorter
http://thermarest.com/product_selection.aspx?cID=1
nothing more than 1.5" in foam, 66" or shorter
NeoAir tubular mattress has tubes 2.5" thick, transverse (probably more comfortable than longitudinal) but still only 2.5 R value
http://thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=88&cID=1
Note that this mattress, though only 1.5" thick, has far higher (claimed) R value than other 1.5" mattresses.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PATCH KITS
Patch kit musings (No patch kit or stuff sack is included with NeoAir):
===============================
Duct tape for single trip repair. Before you say" ya, right" I will add that I purposely deflated my AeroVest ( flimsy metalized mylar as is found in emergency blankets) by puncturing it with a knife which left a 3" gash. I then taped it together with regular ol' duct tape and re-inflated. Then I put it on, lay down on the ground for 1/2 hour with no leak. Then took it off, put a stack of books on it and left it overnight. In the morning it was still inflated the same. A more aesthetic repair would best be had from Thermarest.
===============================
McNett Tenacious Tape uses real tent fabric to provide nearly invisible, permanent repairs. Clean Adhesive Technology allows Tenacious Tape to be removed without leaving duct tape's ugly glue mess behind. Ideal for repairs on tents, tarps, mosquito netting, rain gear, backpacks, sleeping bags, sleeping pads, seat cushions, soft coolers, boat covers and more!
Tenacious Brand repair tape is ideal for fast in-field repairs on tents, tarps, rain gear, fishing gear and more. Instantly seals leaking seams, tears and pinholes, stops rips from spreading and acts as an abrasion-resistant shield on high-wear areas.
Can be used in conjunction with McNett Urethane Adhesives for ultra strong repairs. Includes one 3" x 20" (50cm x 7.5cm) strip of tape, 60 sq. inches (375 sq. cm).
• High Strength Adhesive for Long Lasting Repairs
• Clean Adhesive Technology - Leaves No Sticky, Ugly Residue
• Lightweight and Compact - Easy to Carry in the Field
• Clear Adhesive - Nearly Invisible
http://www.mcnett.com/Tenacious-Tape-Repair-Tape-P139.aspx
===============================
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Nick wrote:
Unbelievably, a patch kit is not included with the product!#!%$**#!!!
http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=134&cID=1
The fabric feels very different from other mattresses, so I am unsure that Therm-a-Rest Hot Bond Repair Kit will work. It is a dumb kit, anyhow, because it requires heat (stove) and is apparently, single-use for the hot bond goo.
http://www.backcountry.com/store/CAS0517/Therm-a-Rest-Fast-And-Lite-Repair-Kit.html
http://www.rei.com/product/668524
REI salesperson claimed the REI kit # 729817 will work, and is superior in that it supports more repair sessions (recloseable tube vs tear-open packets), so I guess I will buy one in Berkeley.
http://www.rei.com/product/729817
I am not completely convinced that a traditional bicycle-type glue (or the glues in the kits above) will stick to this slinky new fabric...
===============================
Turns out the link to repair given in the NeoAir paper product literature is a dead end. Elsewhere on the web site is a FAQ that offers some hints:
http://www.thermarest.com/faqs.aspx#3
to wit:
When repairing my Therm-a-Rest, do I always have to use HotBond(tm)?
That depends on the size of the leak. HotBond needs to be used with a patch; tests have proven that HotBond alone will not stop a leak. If you have a small leak that does not require a patch, a urethane-based glue should be used. Some popular brands are SeamGrip, SeamSeal, AquaSeal, and the glue that comes with a bicycle repair kit. These all work well. Allow 24 hours for drying.
Here are their instructions for Hot Bond repair:
http://www.thermarest.com/RepairKit_Instructions2.doc
to wit:
INSTRUCTIONS FOR MATTRESS REPAIR
Read through all instructions completely before attempting a repair.
What You Will Need to Repair Your Therm-a-Rest(r)
- The Therm-a-Rest Mattress Repair Kit
- Camp stove and pot or pan
- Spoon or similar tool
- Scrap plastic bag (optional)
- Cylindrical object (water bottle)
- A way to mark the leak (tape)
Locating a Pinhole Leak - Inflate the mattress as firmly as possible by mouth and close the valve. Fold the mattress in half to increase air pressure, then immerse the mattress in water or rub soapy water on surface. Small escaping bubbles will indicate the leak; mark the leak.
Repairing Your Therm-a-Rest
NOTE: Each HotBond(tm) pouch is designed for one repair. Discard pouches after use. Very large repairs may require two pouches.
1. Boil approximately one-half quart (one-half liter) of water in a pot or pan.
2. When water boils, place HotBond pouch in water and heat for three minutes. (In the unlikely event that the pouch leaks into your pan, HotBond is designed to quickly turn into a harmless rubbery mass that can easily be removed. There are no solvents or harmful by-products.)
3. The Therm-a-Rest valve must be open, and the mattress should be on a flat surface
4. Make sure the area to be repaired is clean and free of dirt, oil, moisture, and loose debris.
5. Select a pre-cut patch or cut a well-rounded patch from supplied material. Patch should extend 1/2" to 3/4" (1 to 2 cm) beyond puncture/tear in all directions.
6. Carefully remove HotBond from boiling water (use spoon or similar item) and wait a few seconds before handling. Tear off the end of the pouch at the notch. NOTE: HotBond will cool and harden quickly once removed from hot water. You have about one minute to apply and spread HotBond at 20° F, less time in cooler temperatures.
7. For pre-cut patches, apply a drop of HotBond, approximately the diameter of a dime5/8" (17 mm)and about 1/8" thick (2.5-3 mm), directly on the puncture/tear.
8. Using the supplied applicator (or similar item), thoroughly work the HotBond into the fabric with circular motions. A thin, continuous layer of HotBond should be spread outward from the puncture/tear evenly in all directions, about the same size and shape of the patch.
9. Center patch over puncture/tear, shiny side down, and apply patch. Place a layer of plastic bag over the patch to prevent excess HotBond from sticking to bottom of pan. Firmly press on patch to assure a wrinkle-free surface.
10. Carefully place hot pan of water directly on top of plastic bag/patch for 60 seconds. Placing a heated pan of water on your Therm-a-Rest will not harm your mattress if the valve is OPEN.
11. Remove pan and immediately roll over patch 2-3 times with a smooth cylindrical object (such as a water bottle).
12. Allow mattress to remain undisturbed for 10-15 minutes. It is now ready for use.
Though the NeoAir R value has been improved since I bought mine, circa 2009, the weight has not decreased. Seeking to lower pad weight below 66" NeoAir (14 oz) , I auditioned two "pretzel" pads on a fall trip in the Panamint Mountains of Eastern California. Pretzel pads have the advantage of allowing the loft from sleeping bag to billow out and down into the pretzel gaps, instead of being compressed against a sleeping pad surface.
I tried:
Klymit Inertia X-Lite (42" x 18" x 1.5") with manufacturer quoted weight of 6.1 oz (7.9 oz with pump, stuff sack, and patch kit).
Klymit Inertia X-Frame (72" x 18" x 1.5") with manufacturer quoted weight of 9.1 oz (10.6 oz with pump, stuff sack, and patch kit).
Sleeping warmth was barely adequate for the temps encountered at 6300' MSL, when combined with lightweight sleeping bag (MontBell U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger #7), Thermolite bivvy, and polypro long johns, plus light down jacket, and hat. With 6 oz more bag loft, or a warmer jacket, there would have been no need for the bivvy sack. I did not carry or use the pump in either trial, as I was able to adequately top-up the pads by lung power . Both pads are significantly smaller when deflated than NeoAir.
More at:
Klymit.com
=====================================
The sleeping pad Ihave used for 5+ years (with no leaks) is Thermarest NeoAir.
I was driven to improve my pad due to lack of comfort with other systems. Besides improved comfort, benefits to this pad include smaller rolled size, lighter weight, and less need to "groom" sleeping site for lumps.
It is just such a shame that an item (sleeping pad) used for only one purpose, and for less than 1/3 the time has to be so heavy! So the NeoAir is an important innovation *if* one can take the risk of non-repairable rip. (This is why I carry two pads - the inflatable, plus a closed cell foam 0.25" or 0.375" thick pad. The closed cell foam pad only adds 4-5 oz, and is useful for sitting on during meal stops, plus substitutes for the ground sheet under a tent.
I have below embedded loosely organized reviews of technology and specs. It contains comparative R values and weights and patch kit discussion. (No patch kit or stuff sack is included with NeoAir)
I made a container for NeoAir from slicing the tops off clear poly bottles (one liter soda bottles), and making a torpedo-style case by fitting the two bottom sections together. This protects the NeoAir far better than any stuff sack can, is lighter, cheaper, and can serve as a cup.
=====================================
I have decided to replace my 48" NeoAir with their 66" or 72" NeoAir, for reasons of better neck / pillow alignment; I am willing to carry the incremental +4 or 5 oz.
48" NeoAir list price is: $119
66" NeoAir list price is: $139
72" NeoAir list price is: $149
In the late May 2009, I looked at a few vendors for the 66" or 72" NeoAir at prices below list, and found no bargains. But I haven't made an exhaustive search, so if you find a vendor with stock and attractive pricing, please let me know!!
I got an excellent price from the following vendor when I purchased in early May 2009
http://www.backcountry.com/store/CAS0503/Therm-a-Rest-Neoair-Sleeping-Pad.html
the 20% off coupon that worked then: coupon code "475-7-YZRKU" @ CHECKOUT
These vendors seem to have some sizes in stock at list price (there may be coupons that work, but I don't know where they are):
http://www.rei.com/search?query=neoair
http://www.intermountaintraders.com/outdoors/sleeping-pads/thermarest-neoair-sleeping-pad/
http://www.backcountryedge.com/therm_a_rest-neoair.aspx?
Here are some pillow ideas:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=20906
Here is an additional patching method idea:
http://www.mcnett.com/Tenacious-Tape-Repair-Tape-P139.aspx
http://www.rei.com/product/783045
=====================================
NeoAir Dimensions:
[S] 20 x 47in (51 x 119cm); [M] 20 x 66in (51 x 168cm); [R] 20 x 72in (51 x 183cm); [L] 25 x 77in (63 x 196cm)
Rolled Size:
[S] 9 x 3.3in (23 x 9cm); [M, R] 9 x 4in (23 x 10cm); [L] 11 x 4.5in (28 x 11cm)
Weight:
[S] 9oz (260g); [M] 13oz (370g); [R] 14oz (410g); [L] 1lb 3oz (550g)
=======================================
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:55:21 -0700
Looks like everyone wants NeoAir, and everyone is out of stock. Just as well, because I need to prove the comfort of such a system to myself. This I can do with field tests using what I already have. When I have proved that 2.5" tube-inflatable is more comfortable for me than other systems, then I can reduce the weight of 2.5" tube-inflatable system by replacing Insul Mat Max Thermo 3/4 ( 17 oz ) with NeoAir Small ( 9 oz ), which will be a ratio of $20 / oz
I think I will soldier fwd with
Insul Mat Max Thermo 3/4 ( 17 oz) supplanted with 1/8" foam ( 2 oz )
perhaps improved to
Insul Mat Max Thermo 3/4 ( 17 oz) supplanted with 1/4" foam ( 4 oz )
I like the more compact size of rolled NeoAir
=======================================
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 21:33:16 -0700
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=15373&skip_to_post=160237#160237
NeoAir vs BA Aircore, good pics, first-hand knowledge.
===============================
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Nick wrote:
It is just such a shame that an item (sleeping pad) used for only one purpose, and for less than 1/3 the time has to be so heavy!
Choking on the $120 price for Thermarest NeoAir, I set out to find our the R value of the Insul Mat Max Thermo 3/4 x 20" x 48" x 2.5" ( 17 oz) that I already own. R Value ain't published anywhere. It is certainly less than the NeoAir (R 2.5 ), but at least that of Big Agnes Air Core ( R 1.0 ) . I did find some info (but not R value) here:
http://www.pacoutdoor.com/
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/pacific-outdoor-equipment/insulmat-max-thermo/
From the large adobe.pdf downloaded from pacoutdoor.com, I find their current product line includes this model Ether Thermo 6, which is slightly warmer than the Max Thermo 3/4 that I own, due to addition of some fuzz on the inside of the tubes:
Ether Thermo 6
2.5 inches of air cushioning and a layer of Air Loft Thermo insulation provide maximum thickness and comfort in a package that folds and rolls to almost disappear in your pack. 50D top and 70D bottom fabrics provide durability and lightweight protection from the little things that can puncture and abrade.
Item No. Size (in) Size (cm) Weight Color
ET678 20 x 78 x 2.5 51 x 198 x 6.0 675 g (24 oz) Carrot Long Regular 2/3
ET672 20 x 72 x 2.5 51 x 183 x 6.0 623 g (22 oz) Carrot
ET648 20 x 48 x 2.5 51 x 122 x 6.0 416 g (15 oz) Carrot
I think the NeoAir is probably superior in R value to Ether Thermo 6, because the tubes are shorter *, are subdivided internally, and there is some sort of heat reflective barrier in there (* Air inside tubes moving due to thermal differential, simply has less tube distance to roll around in). I don't believe ThermaRest's claim that the NeoAir is "3 times warmer than an un-insulated air mattress" Ref:
http://www.getoutdoors.com/goblog/uploads/neo_air.jpg,
9 oz NeoAir can be supplanted with 1/8 foam (2 oz)
But being a bit frugal, the combo I try next will be: Insul Mat Max Thermo 3/4 ( 17 oz) supplanted with 1/8 foam (2 oz) as compared to 32 oz combo [ Z rest and REI Core Light ] I carried this past w/e.
If that ain't enough, I may go with Big Agnes Insulated Air core (R 4.1, 22 oz) supplanted with 1/8 foam (2 oz)
http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Specs/Pad
============================================
NeoAir(tm)
Comparison Guide
AVAILABLE APRIL 2009: The NeoAir mattress represents the world's most advanced engineering in ultralight comfort. Beyond being the lightest air mattress available, we've utilized two patent-pending internal technologies, making it up to three times warmer and far more stable than any other uninsulated air mattress available. And when it comes to space in your pack, you'll appreciate that it's no bigger than a one-liter water bottle. Revolutionary by design, the gossamer NeoAir mattress makes comfort one less thing you'll need to compromise when traveling Fast & Light.
° Ultralight & Compact: Weighs just 14oz. and packs down to the size of a 1-liter water bottle.
° Unrivaled Warmth: Our patent-pending reflective barrier returns warmth to your body and reduces heat loss to the ground, keeping you three times warmer than any other uninsulated air mattress
° Sleep Stable: When inflated, patent-pending Triangular Core Matrix technology creates an internal truss system, resulting in the most stable non-self-inflating air mattresses.
° Lasting Performance: Achieving thermal efficiency without down or fiber insulation means the NeoAir can be inflated directly without the added weight of a pump, or worrying about exhaled moisture wetting insulation and decreasing performance.
Large Regular Medium Small
Weight 1 lbs 3 oz/550 g 14 oz/410 g 13 oz/370 g 9 oz/260 g
Inflated size 25 x 77 in 20 x 72 in 20 x 66 in 20 x 47 in
Rolled Size 11 x 4.5 in/28 x 11 cm 9 x 4.0 in/23 x 10 cm 9 x 4.0 in/23 x 10 cm 9 x 3.3 in/23 x 9 cm
R-Value 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5
Thickness 2.5 in/6.3 cm 2.5 in/6.3 cm 2.5 in/6.3 cm 2.5 in/6.3 cm
Suggested
Price (U.S.) $169.95 $149.95 $139.95 $119.95
===============================
We all need better, softer sleeping pads...
I was carrying a Z Rest waffle foam pad (16 oz) and a 1.5" x 48" REI Foam Core inflatable pad ( 14 oz) which up to 28 oz, and I am warm enough, but the combo is still not soft enough, even on sand!
http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Specs/Pad
nothing more than 1.5" in foam, 66" or shorter
http://thermarest.com/product_selection.aspx?cID=1
nothing more than 1.5" in foam, 66" or shorter
NeoAir tubular mattress has tubes 2.5" thick, transverse (probably more comfortable than longitudinal) but still only 2.5 R value
http://thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=88&cID=1
Note that this mattress, though only 1.5" thick, has far higher (claimed) R value than other 1.5" mattresses.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PATCH KITS
Patch kit musings (No patch kit or stuff sack is included with NeoAir):
===============================
Duct tape for single trip repair. Before you say" ya, right" I will add that I purposely deflated my AeroVest ( flimsy metalized mylar as is found in emergency blankets) by puncturing it with a knife which left a 3" gash. I then taped it together with regular ol' duct tape and re-inflated. Then I put it on, lay down on the ground for 1/2 hour with no leak. Then took it off, put a stack of books on it and left it overnight. In the morning it was still inflated the same. A more aesthetic repair would best be had from Thermarest.
===============================
McNett Tenacious Tape uses real tent fabric to provide nearly invisible, permanent repairs. Clean Adhesive Technology allows Tenacious Tape to be removed without leaving duct tape's ugly glue mess behind. Ideal for repairs on tents, tarps, mosquito netting, rain gear, backpacks, sleeping bags, sleeping pads, seat cushions, soft coolers, boat covers and more!
Tenacious Brand repair tape is ideal for fast in-field repairs on tents, tarps, rain gear, fishing gear and more. Instantly seals leaking seams, tears and pinholes, stops rips from spreading and acts as an abrasion-resistant shield on high-wear areas.
Can be used in conjunction with McNett Urethane Adhesives for ultra strong repairs. Includes one 3" x 20" (50cm x 7.5cm) strip of tape, 60 sq. inches (375 sq. cm).
• High Strength Adhesive for Long Lasting Repairs
• Clean Adhesive Technology - Leaves No Sticky, Ugly Residue
• Lightweight and Compact - Easy to Carry in the Field
• Clear Adhesive - Nearly Invisible
http://www.mcnett.com/Tenacious-Tape-Repair-Tape-P139.aspx
===============================
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Nick wrote:
Unbelievably, a patch kit is not included with the product!#!%$**#!!!
http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=134&cID=1
The fabric feels very different from other mattresses, so I am unsure that Therm-a-Rest Hot Bond Repair Kit will work. It is a dumb kit, anyhow, because it requires heat (stove) and is apparently, single-use for the hot bond goo.
http://www.backcountry.com/store/CAS0517/Therm-a-Rest-Fast-And-Lite-Repair-Kit.html
http://www.rei.com/product/668524
REI salesperson claimed the REI kit # 729817 will work, and is superior in that it supports more repair sessions (recloseable tube vs tear-open packets), so I guess I will buy one in Berkeley.
http://www.rei.com/product/729817
I am not completely convinced that a traditional bicycle-type glue (or the glues in the kits above) will stick to this slinky new fabric...
===============================
Turns out the link to repair given in the NeoAir paper product literature is a dead end. Elsewhere on the web site is a FAQ that offers some hints:
http://www.thermarest.com/faqs.aspx#3
to wit:
When repairing my Therm-a-Rest, do I always have to use HotBond(tm)?
That depends on the size of the leak. HotBond needs to be used with a patch; tests have proven that HotBond alone will not stop a leak. If you have a small leak that does not require a patch, a urethane-based glue should be used. Some popular brands are SeamGrip, SeamSeal, AquaSeal, and the glue that comes with a bicycle repair kit. These all work well. Allow 24 hours for drying.
Here are their instructions for Hot Bond repair:
http://www.thermarest.com/RepairKit_Instructions2.doc
to wit:
INSTRUCTIONS FOR MATTRESS REPAIR
Read through all instructions completely before attempting a repair.
What You Will Need to Repair Your Therm-a-Rest(r)
- The Therm-a-Rest Mattress Repair Kit
- Camp stove and pot or pan
- Spoon or similar tool
- Scrap plastic bag (optional)
- Cylindrical object (water bottle)
- A way to mark the leak (tape)
Locating a Pinhole Leak - Inflate the mattress as firmly as possible by mouth and close the valve. Fold the mattress in half to increase air pressure, then immerse the mattress in water or rub soapy water on surface. Small escaping bubbles will indicate the leak; mark the leak.
Repairing Your Therm-a-Rest
NOTE: Each HotBond(tm) pouch is designed for one repair. Discard pouches after use. Very large repairs may require two pouches.
1. Boil approximately one-half quart (one-half liter) of water in a pot or pan.
2. When water boils, place HotBond pouch in water and heat for three minutes. (In the unlikely event that the pouch leaks into your pan, HotBond is designed to quickly turn into a harmless rubbery mass that can easily be removed. There are no solvents or harmful by-products.)
3. The Therm-a-Rest valve must be open, and the mattress should be on a flat surface
4. Make sure the area to be repaired is clean and free of dirt, oil, moisture, and loose debris.
5. Select a pre-cut patch or cut a well-rounded patch from supplied material. Patch should extend 1/2" to 3/4" (1 to 2 cm) beyond puncture/tear in all directions.
6. Carefully remove HotBond from boiling water (use spoon or similar item) and wait a few seconds before handling. Tear off the end of the pouch at the notch. NOTE: HotBond will cool and harden quickly once removed from hot water. You have about one minute to apply and spread HotBond at 20° F, less time in cooler temperatures.
7. For pre-cut patches, apply a drop of HotBond, approximately the diameter of a dime5/8" (17 mm)and about 1/8" thick (2.5-3 mm), directly on the puncture/tear.
8. Using the supplied applicator (or similar item), thoroughly work the HotBond into the fabric with circular motions. A thin, continuous layer of HotBond should be spread outward from the puncture/tear evenly in all directions, about the same size and shape of the patch.
9. Center patch over puncture/tear, shiny side down, and apply patch. Place a layer of plastic bag over the patch to prevent excess HotBond from sticking to bottom of pan. Firmly press on patch to assure a wrinkle-free surface.
10. Carefully place hot pan of water directly on top of plastic bag/patch for 60 seconds. Placing a heated pan of water on your Therm-a-Rest will not harm your mattress if the valve is OPEN.
11. Remove pan and immediately roll over patch 2-3 times with a smooth cylindrical object (such as a water bottle).
12. Allow mattress to remain undisturbed for 10-15 minutes. It is now ready for use.
2009-08-10
Weekend backpack 12 lbs !!
Weekend backpack 12 lbs !!
Think that a 12* pound backpack for a weekend means deprivation, discomfort, and denying yo'self? Think again! About the freedom a light pack affords; the ability to hike fast or slow, on trail, or off, moving easily around or over obstacles. Below you will find details on one approach that I use for three season hiking in temps 40-95 degrees F, where precipitation is unlikely, but if it occurs, will be only intermittent rain.
* Weight includes two days food, but no water
Listed by column, starting with lower left corner of items pictured (image at bottom of list):
socks, second pair
4 oz
$10
foam pad, closed-cell, 1/8" thick
3 oz
$20
http://gossamergear.com
water bottle, one liter
3 oz (empty)
$0
bear hang cord and carabiner
4 oz
$5
Toiletries kit (includes chlorine Dioxide water purification tablets)
6 oz
$20
Toilet paper mini-roll, with plastic bags for storage of used paper, and lighter.
3 oz
$2
Wind layer, jacket (Featherlite Smock) and pants (Featherlite), Montane (in 2 tennis ball sized stuff sacks)
3.5 oz each x quantity two
$50 each x quantity two
montane.co.uk
siliconized nylon stuff sack containing 3 pounds no-cook food (two days supply)
48 oz
$16
wash cloth, cotton (pretty-in-pink)
3 oz
$2
head net for insect protection, with wrapped bottle of insect repellent.
4 oz
$15
Shelter (floorless), GoLite Hut 1, and stakes. With optional tent poles, 3 golden aluminum.
15 + 3 oz
$95
golite.com
tarptent.com
Polypro zip T jersey (grey)
6 oz
$26
Polypro long leg underwear (black)
6 oz
$26
Signal mirror, compass, whistle in black stuff sack
4 oz
$25
Headlamp, LED
2 oz
2oz
$12
SPOT emergency locator GPS-integrated digital transmitter (orange)
4 oz
$100 purchase + $110 per year
findmespot.com
backpack, Gregory ISO 1200 cubic inches 20 liters (red / grey) pictured herein
26 oz
$55
backpack, slightly larger alternate: Gregory Icarus 1500 cubic inches 23 liters 26 oz
Jacket, Ultra Light Synthetic MontBell Thermawrap
9 oz
$110
montbell.us
Sleeping pad, Thermarest NeoAir short 48" (lime / silver) in soda bottle carrying case
10 oz
$96
cascadedesigns.com
Sleeping Pad patch kit, in bag with bright yellow notepaper and ball point pen
3 oz
$9
rei.com
mcnett.com
Sleeping Bag, MontBell Ultra Light Super Stretch Down Hugger #5
20 oz
$150
montbell.us
==============================
193 oz (12.2 lbs) Total weight
$894 Total cost (many at sale prices)
==============================
Recommended to carry (in addition to pack)
Camera
Snake Bite Kit
Gloves
Lip Balm
Sunscreen
Sun Hat
Insulating Hat
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Think that a 12* pound backpack for a weekend means deprivation, discomfort, and denying yo'self? Think again! About the freedom a light pack affords; the ability to hike fast or slow, on trail, or off, moving easily around or over obstacles. Below you will find details on one approach that I use for three season hiking in temps 40-95 degrees F, where precipitation is unlikely, but if it occurs, will be only intermittent rain.
* Weight includes two days food, but no water
Listed by column, starting with lower left corner:
socks, second pair
4 oz
$10
foam pad, closed-cell, 1/8" thick
3 oz
$20
http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/thinlight.html
water bottle, one liter
3 oz (empty)
$0
bear hang cord and carabiner
4 oz
$5
Toiletries kit (includes chlorine Dioxide water purification tablets)
6 oz
$20
Toilet paper mini-roll, with plastic bags for storage of used paper, and lighter.
3 oz
$2
Wind layer, jacket (Featherlite Smock) and pants (Featherlite), Montane (in 2 tennis ball sized stuff sacks)
3.5 oz each x quantity two
$50 each x quantity two
http://www.montane.co.uk/productlist.php?rid=7&rn=Fast%20&%20Lite
siliconized nylon stuff sack containing 3 pounds no-cook food (two days supply)
48 oz
$16
wash cloth, cotton (pretty-in-pink)
3 oz
$2
head net for insect protection, with wrapped bottle of insect repellent.
4 oz
$15
Shelter (floorless), GoLite Hut 1, and stakes. With optional tent poles, 3 golden aluminum.
15 + 3 oz
$95
http://www.golite.com/Product/ProductBySubCategory.aspx?sc=86&s=1
http://tarptent.com/products.html
Polypro zip T jersey (grey)
6 oz
$26
Polypro long leg underwear (black)
6 oz
$26
Signal mirror, compass, whistle in black stuff sack
4 oz
$25
Headlamp, LED
2 oz
2oz
$12
SPOT emergency locator GPS-integrated digital transmitter (orange)
4 oz
$100 purchase + $110 per year
http://findmespot.com/en/
backpack, Gregory ISO 1200 cubic inches (red / grey)
26 oz
$55
http://www.gregorypacks.com/us/?option=com_gregorypacks&act=product&task=details&cid=15
Jacket, Ultra Light Synthetic MontBell Thermawrap
13 oz
$110
http://www.montbell.us/products/list.php?cat_id=73
Sleeping pad, Thermarest NeoAir short 48" (lime / silver) in soda bottle carrying case
10 oz
$96
http://cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/fast-and-light/neoair/product
Sleeping Pad patch kit, in bag with bright yellow notepaper and ball point pen
3 oz
$9
http://www.rei.com/product/783045
http://www.mcnett.com/Tenacious-Tape-Repair-Tape-P139.aspx
Sleeping Bag, MontBell Ultra Light Super Stretch Down Hugger #5
20 oz
$150
http://www.montbell.us/products/list.php?p=all&cat_id=28
==============================
197 oz (12.3 lbs) Total weight
$894 Total cost (many at sale prices)
==============================
Recommended to carry (in addition to pack)
Camera
Snake Bite Kit
Gloves
Lip Balm
Sunscreen
Sun Hat
Insulating Hat
==============================
Think that a 12* pound backpack for a weekend means deprivation, discomfort, and denying yo'self? Think again! About the freedom a light pack affords; the ability to hike fast or slow, on trail, or off, moving easily around or over obstacles. Below you will find details on one approach that I use for three season hiking in temps 40-95 degrees F, where precipitation is unlikely, but if it occurs, will be only intermittent rain.
* Weight includes two days food, but no water
Listed by column, starting with lower left corner of items pictured (image at bottom of list):
socks, second pair
4 oz
$10
foam pad, closed-cell, 1/8" thick
3 oz
$20
http://gossamergear.com
water bottle, one liter
3 oz (empty)
$0
bear hang cord and carabiner
4 oz
$5
Toiletries kit (includes chlorine Dioxide water purification tablets)
6 oz
$20
Toilet paper mini-roll, with plastic bags for storage of used paper, and lighter.
3 oz
$2
Wind layer, jacket (Featherlite Smock) and pants (Featherlite), Montane (in 2 tennis ball sized stuff sacks)
3.5 oz each x quantity two
$50 each x quantity two
montane.co.uk
siliconized nylon stuff sack containing 3 pounds no-cook food (two days supply)
48 oz
$16
wash cloth, cotton (pretty-in-pink)
3 oz
$2
head net for insect protection, with wrapped bottle of insect repellent.
4 oz
$15
Shelter (floorless), GoLite Hut 1, and stakes. With optional tent poles, 3 golden aluminum.
15 + 3 oz
$95
golite.com
tarptent.com
Polypro zip T jersey (grey)
6 oz
$26
Polypro long leg underwear (black)
6 oz
$26
Signal mirror, compass, whistle in black stuff sack
4 oz
$25
Headlamp, LED
2 oz
2oz
$12
SPOT emergency locator GPS-integrated digital transmitter (orange)
4 oz
$100 purchase + $110 per year
findmespot.com
backpack, Gregory ISO 1200 cubic inches 20 liters (red / grey) pictured herein
26 oz
$55
backpack, slightly larger alternate: Gregory Icarus 1500 cubic inches 23 liters 26 oz
Jacket, Ultra Light Synthetic MontBell Thermawrap
9 oz
$110
montbell.us
Sleeping pad, Thermarest NeoAir short 48" (lime / silver) in soda bottle carrying case
10 oz
$96
cascadedesigns.com
Sleeping Pad patch kit, in bag with bright yellow notepaper and ball point pen
3 oz
$9
rei.com
mcnett.com
Sleeping Bag, MontBell Ultra Light Super Stretch Down Hugger #5
20 oz
$150
montbell.us
==============================
193 oz (12.2 lbs) Total weight
$894 Total cost (many at sale prices)
==============================
Recommended to carry (in addition to pack)
Camera
Snake Bite Kit
Gloves
Lip Balm
Sunscreen
Sun Hat
Insulating Hat
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Think that a 12* pound backpack for a weekend means deprivation, discomfort, and denying yo'self? Think again! About the freedom a light pack affords; the ability to hike fast or slow, on trail, or off, moving easily around or over obstacles. Below you will find details on one approach that I use for three season hiking in temps 40-95 degrees F, where precipitation is unlikely, but if it occurs, will be only intermittent rain.
* Weight includes two days food, but no water
Listed by column, starting with lower left corner:
socks, second pair
4 oz
$10
foam pad, closed-cell, 1/8" thick
3 oz
$20
http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/thinlight.html
water bottle, one liter
3 oz (empty)
$0
bear hang cord and carabiner
4 oz
$5
Toiletries kit (includes chlorine Dioxide water purification tablets)
6 oz
$20
Toilet paper mini-roll, with plastic bags for storage of used paper, and lighter.
3 oz
$2
Wind layer, jacket (Featherlite Smock) and pants (Featherlite), Montane (in 2 tennis ball sized stuff sacks)
3.5 oz each x quantity two
$50 each x quantity two
http://www.montane.co.uk/productlist.php?rid=7&rn=Fast%20&%20Lite
siliconized nylon stuff sack containing 3 pounds no-cook food (two days supply)
48 oz
$16
wash cloth, cotton (pretty-in-pink)
3 oz
$2
head net for insect protection, with wrapped bottle of insect repellent.
4 oz
$15
Shelter (floorless), GoLite Hut 1, and stakes. With optional tent poles, 3 golden aluminum.
15 + 3 oz
$95
http://www.golite.com/Product/ProductBySubCategory.aspx?sc=86&s=1
http://tarptent.com/products.html
Polypro zip T jersey (grey)
6 oz
$26
Polypro long leg underwear (black)
6 oz
$26
Signal mirror, compass, whistle in black stuff sack
4 oz
$25
Headlamp, LED
2 oz
2oz
$12
SPOT emergency locator GPS-integrated digital transmitter (orange)
4 oz
$100 purchase + $110 per year
http://findmespot.com/en/
backpack, Gregory ISO 1200 cubic inches (red / grey)
26 oz
$55
http://www.gregorypacks.com/us/?option=com_gregorypacks&act=product&task=details&cid=15
Jacket, Ultra Light Synthetic MontBell Thermawrap
13 oz
$110
http://www.montbell.us/products/list.php?cat_id=73
Sleeping pad, Thermarest NeoAir short 48" (lime / silver) in soda bottle carrying case
10 oz
$96
http://cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/fast-and-light/neoair/product
Sleeping Pad patch kit, in bag with bright yellow notepaper and ball point pen
3 oz
$9
http://www.rei.com/product/783045
http://www.mcnett.com/Tenacious-Tape-Repair-Tape-P139.aspx
Sleeping Bag, MontBell Ultra Light Super Stretch Down Hugger #5
20 oz
$150
http://www.montbell.us/products/list.php?p=all&cat_id=28
==============================
197 oz (12.3 lbs) Total weight
$894 Total cost (many at sale prices)
==============================
Recommended to carry (in addition to pack)
Camera
Snake Bite Kit
Gloves
Lip Balm
Sunscreen
Sun Hat
Insulating Hat
==============================
Vendors: Links
Vendors: Links
Rev 2009-06-09
While there are vendors that gather quality lightweight backpacking together, the large stores seem to pay only lip service to the concept. Some lightweight gear vendors are survival oriented; some are through hiker oriented. General outdoor retailers such as REI employ salespersons who are rarely experienced with lightweight gear, or desert backpacking; their store stocks little lightweight gear. Below are some of the more useful lightweight vendors and retailers:
backpackinglight.com
ultimatesurvival.com
adventuremedicalkits.com
9voltlight.com
findmespot.com
cascadedesigns.com
rxsorbo.com
montbell.us
golite.com
tarptent.com
blackdiamondequipment.com
rei.com
montane.co.uk
pertex.com
inov-8.com
gossamergear.com
mountainlaureldesigns.com
Rev 2009-06-09
While there are vendors that gather quality lightweight backpacking together, the large stores seem to pay only lip service to the concept. Some lightweight gear vendors are survival oriented; some are through hiker oriented. General outdoor retailers such as REI employ salespersons who are rarely experienced with lightweight gear, or desert backpacking; their store stocks little lightweight gear. Below are some of the more useful lightweight vendors and retailers:
backpackinglight.com
ultimatesurvival.com
adventuremedicalkits.com
9voltlight.com
findmespot.com
cascadedesigns.com
rxsorbo.com
montbell.us
golite.com
tarptent.com
blackdiamondequipment.com
rei.com
montane.co.uk
pertex.com
inov-8.com
gossamergear.com
mountainlaureldesigns.com
Gear Innovations
Soda bottle shower - use to keep wash effluent far (hundreds of feet!) from streams and lakes. Free, lightweight, and collapsable. Doubles as potable water vessel.
Soda bottle bidet.
Simply pre-drill holes in a spare bottle cap. Bottle lanyard aids grip when hands are slippery, and aids in carrying multiple bottles back from the fill source.
Need a down jacket but don't want the weight or bulk in your pack?
Use the "Python Parka" method! Provides a down jacket but without the weight or bulk in your pack! Flex arms to add that "bulked up" look!
SPOT buttons can be accidentally punched when stowed in a pack. Make this sardine-can button protector to ensure that messages are sent only when you intend. Ref: SPOT GPS integrated digital rescue transmitter
Meals without cooking
Enjoy sunset colors beaming through horizon clouds, as bats begin to flit and chirp, instead of staring at a loudly hissing stove and pot that increased your pack weight by nearly a pound! Enjoy pre-dawn bird calls, and see animals moving in the shadows as you walk, instead of squatting in the dirt, praying to the hissing idol between your knees. Stoves can fail. They have caused wildfires. Liquid fuel has leaked, ruining gear. Cook-less foods are nearly fool proof. And tasty!
Save time, weight, and reduce complexity by eating when you want to, not just when and where cooking is possible. Eating cook-less foods increases flexibility to respond to changing weather conditions and group dynamics.
Many athletes use diets such discussed below to thrive and thrill in the backcountry. Nutritional analysis is important, so one becomes
1) less likely to carry too much food
2) more likely to have balanced nutrition
3) less likely to be unhappy or hungry.
One does have to be a bit careful about dispensing advice on diet, particularly if it is going to be used by the undiscerning in places where medical help may be unavailable, and the newbies have not rehearsed it before the trip. Radically changing diet can lead to health problems: elevated blood cholesterol, acid reflux, heartburn, gall bladder problems, gall stones, kidney stones, etc. Folks new to a particular activity or diet may not be as discerning about their body's reactions and needs. Inadequate hydration and electrolyte imbalance among new mountain bicyclists and desert hikers are examples of this. So, try these cook-less meals at home, and on single day outings, well in advance of longer trips.
Experienced trail runners and through hikers often have personal preferences on various diets, and these are available on various blogs and web sites. Credit is due to Desert-Survivors.org members Kim C and Jim C for their contributions to this article.
Their tips, plus some of my own are summarized here:
Carry food with average energy density exceeding 100 calories per oz, or 3.6 calories per gram. (1 oz = 28 grams)
Avoid lo-cal foods.
Fats are good! (Though trans-fats are not the best type)
Watch for salt content - take into account when concocting re-hydration mix.
Start with about 1.5 lbs of food per day; adjust as you learn. (24 oz ~ 3000 calories per day, which is less than what is burned on strenuous hikes.)
Balance fats, protein and carbohydrates in a way that is palatable to you. Fats are most dense in calories. But just bringing a bottle of olive oil, while super efficient, won't make your body completely happy.
Plan carefully! The longer the trip, the more planning and preparation are rewarded. Preparing food can be done days before departure. Stories of those who brought a pound of cheese, or a loaf of bread belong in newspaper cartoons, not trip write-ups.
Calculating the energy density from the nutrition label. Pure protein is 112 calories per oz (4 calories per gram), as are carbohydrates. Fat is 252 calories per oz (9 calories per gram). Calculate the nutrition values per serving, and how many calories and grams are in a serving. Example: tuna is not an efficient protein source, but whey protein is.
Include the right amount of stool-softening foods to stay regular. (Approx 4 prunes or 4 medjool dates per day)
Carry a spoon to avoid dirty-hand contamination from sharing food in environments where people's hands cannot be kept clean.
Here are some energy-dense foods from which to choose:
potato chips (I like fritos)
mayonnaise (I use single-serving packages from fast-food franchises)
olive oil
peanut butter
tortillas
crackers
dried fruit (varied energy density, so analyze labels)
nuts (varied energy density and fat content, so analyze labels)
seeds
dry cheese (parmesan keeps well without refrigeration)
salami (pre-sliced, packaged salami is convenient, keeps well, and avoids dangerous slicing-in-the-field)
jerky
hard candy
energy bars
candy bars
Try combinations: Dried curry lentil soup is an efficient source of carbohydrates and fiber, which can be blended with olive oil and whey powder for a tasty concentration of nutrition, that is both balanced and calorie-dense.
Bring food that is not just energy dense, but actually tastes good. An ounce of dried fruit may be less than 100 calories, but is tasty and provides needed minerals and vitamins. (Several types come close to 100 calories per oz)
When comparing the weight of my stove+fuel+pot (14 oz for 10 meals) with a cook-less menu, I figure that cook-less compared to add-water-to-cook foods, I save weight on any trip shorter than approx 4 days (for trips where water is available frequently). On trips where I must carry days worth of water, the savings is lower.. Expressed another way, if I am going to have to carry days worth of water, I might as well carry it already embedded in my food, so I don't have carry an extra 14 oz of tools to rehydrate that food. Besides, I would rather look at the sunrise and sunset, and listen to the critters and the wind, instead of being focused on some hissing little device that may fail, and screw up my meals for the rest of the trip. Besides, I can eat cook-less meals while moving.
I try to never cut food in the field, because:
1) small sharp blades are likely to injure fingers
2) Finger (and foot) cuts are very hard to keep clean and uninfected.
3) Food hygiene is hard to maintain when dirty fingers repeatedly handle the uncut portion.
Why carry a knife at all? (I carry a scalpel in my medical kit)
If you are determined to slice things in the field, a plastic yogurt container lid makes a lightweight cutting surface.
For an interesting and authoritative counterpoint to some of these concepts, see
http://riskingtoofar.com/food-choices
Save time, weight, and reduce complexity by eating when you want to, not just when and where cooking is possible. Eating cook-less foods increases flexibility to respond to changing weather conditions and group dynamics.
Many athletes use diets such discussed below to thrive and thrill in the backcountry. Nutritional analysis is important, so one becomes
1) less likely to carry too much food
2) more likely to have balanced nutrition
3) less likely to be unhappy or hungry.
One does have to be a bit careful about dispensing advice on diet, particularly if it is going to be used by the undiscerning in places where medical help may be unavailable, and the newbies have not rehearsed it before the trip. Radically changing diet can lead to health problems: elevated blood cholesterol, acid reflux, heartburn, gall bladder problems, gall stones, kidney stones, etc. Folks new to a particular activity or diet may not be as discerning about their body's reactions and needs. Inadequate hydration and electrolyte imbalance among new mountain bicyclists and desert hikers are examples of this. So, try these cook-less meals at home, and on single day outings, well in advance of longer trips.
Experienced trail runners and through hikers often have personal preferences on various diets, and these are available on various blogs and web sites. Credit is due to Desert-Survivors.org members Kim C and Jim C for their contributions to this article.
Their tips, plus some of my own are summarized here:
Carry food with average energy density exceeding 100 calories per oz, or 3.6 calories per gram. (1 oz = 28 grams)
Avoid lo-cal foods.
Fats are good! (Though trans-fats are not the best type)
Watch for salt content - take into account when concocting re-hydration mix.
Start with about 1.5 lbs of food per day; adjust as you learn. (24 oz ~ 3000 calories per day, which is less than what is burned on strenuous hikes.)
Balance fats, protein and carbohydrates in a way that is palatable to you. Fats are most dense in calories. But just bringing a bottle of olive oil, while super efficient, won't make your body completely happy.
Plan carefully! The longer the trip, the more planning and preparation are rewarded. Preparing food can be done days before departure. Stories of those who brought a pound of cheese, or a loaf of bread belong in newspaper cartoons, not trip write-ups.
Calculating the energy density from the nutrition label. Pure protein is 112 calories per oz (4 calories per gram), as are carbohydrates. Fat is 252 calories per oz (9 calories per gram). Calculate the nutrition values per serving, and how many calories and grams are in a serving. Example: tuna is not an efficient protein source, but whey protein is.
Include the right amount of stool-softening foods to stay regular. (Approx 4 prunes or 4 medjool dates per day)
Carry a spoon to avoid dirty-hand contamination from sharing food in environments where people's hands cannot be kept clean.
Here are some energy-dense foods from which to choose:
potato chips (I like fritos)
mayonnaise (I use single-serving packages from fast-food franchises)
olive oil
peanut butter
tortillas
crackers
dried fruit (varied energy density, so analyze labels)
nuts (varied energy density and fat content, so analyze labels)
seeds
dry cheese (parmesan keeps well without refrigeration)
salami (pre-sliced, packaged salami is convenient, keeps well, and avoids dangerous slicing-in-the-field)
jerky
hard candy
energy bars
candy bars
Try combinations: Dried curry lentil soup is an efficient source of carbohydrates and fiber, which can be blended with olive oil and whey powder for a tasty concentration of nutrition, that is both balanced and calorie-dense.
Bring food that is not just energy dense, but actually tastes good. An ounce of dried fruit may be less than 100 calories, but is tasty and provides needed minerals and vitamins. (Several types come close to 100 calories per oz)
When comparing the weight of my stove+fuel+pot (14 oz for 10 meals) with a cook-less menu, I figure that cook-less compared to add-water-to-cook foods, I save weight on any trip shorter than approx 4 days (for trips where water is available frequently). On trips where I must carry days worth of water, the savings is lower.. Expressed another way, if I am going to have to carry days worth of water, I might as well carry it already embedded in my food, so I don't have carry an extra 14 oz of tools to rehydrate that food. Besides, I would rather look at the sunrise and sunset, and listen to the critters and the wind, instead of being focused on some hissing little device that may fail, and screw up my meals for the rest of the trip. Besides, I can eat cook-less meals while moving.
I try to never cut food in the field, because:
1) small sharp blades are likely to injure fingers
2) Finger (and foot) cuts are very hard to keep clean and uninfected.
3) Food hygiene is hard to maintain when dirty fingers repeatedly handle the uncut portion.
Why carry a knife at all? (I carry a scalpel in my medical kit)
If you are determined to slice things in the field, a plastic yogurt container lid makes a lightweight cutting surface.
For an interesting and authoritative counterpoint to some of these concepts, see
http://riskingtoofar.com/food-choices
Sleeping Bags
Below are some loosely organized thoughts about sleeping bag specs, weights, and construction. It contains specific reference to the Mont-bell that is my favorite.
Most 3 season campers in the temperate zones (between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn) at elevations up to 10,000 Feet can safely focus on UL bags in the 18 - 25 oz range. This zone includes for three season UL overnight Sierra backpacking below 10000 feet.
With UL top and bottom layer garments (such as Mont-bell thermawrap, or Columbia Alpino II) plus a slime barrier lightweight poly-pro underwear layer, plus hat, gloves, socks (all worn inside the bag), plus 1.5" or more pad, and perhaps a Thermolite bivvy or TarpTent, you should be good down to at least 28 degrees F. If I wake up cold, I just eat more fat, and do pushups in the bag to re-warm. This happens to me less than one of 30 nights in the backcountry, which is a risk I am more than willing to accept, to achieve the weight savings. If I wanted to be damn sure I was good for lower temps, I would take a pair of down booties, a down hat, and more edible fat.
I use as a baseline what I have tested, and carried for two years now, (as referenced in the [DSOL] gear review). I got this Mont-bell bag at around $130. If they are not on sale right now, similar products are. It is normally possible to find something appropriate for under $150 on sale. If you want to change it out in a year or two, you should have no trouble recovering at least 50% of that expense via sale on CraigsList, or the local newspaper if advertising at the right time of year (late spring or early summer).
===============================================
Compare the weights of shell+stitching+zipper+drawcord to fill. For most bags in this range, the fill weight is 10 or 6 oz, yet the rest of the bag weighs 13 oz. (The difference in in these bags can be assumed to be entirely fill weight). This is precisely why, for UL purposes, more layers of shell are to be avoided, because they are heavy, and add *no* warmth. (This is why I am replacing my Thermawrap jacket + vest combo with a single garment - Alpino II jacket.)
The down fill in all these products can be assumed to have identical density. So the weight difference is going to be mainly from shell fabric, and other construction details (zipper length, presence of draft tubes, quantity of baffles and hence stitching weight). For fabric, "Denier" is the key specification. As I understand it, higher denier number basically means more threads per unit area, and hence more weight. Fabric of low denier weighs less, but is more vulnerable to rips and tears. Some manufacturers claim they has an advantage in thread technology, for example Mont-Bell claims their threads are hollow, so that distorts a denier comparison a little. I think learning about fabric technology is very important for choosing gear, precisely because the shells are a huge proportion garment weight!
prolitegear.com is an *excellent* vendor, for accurate specifications, and meaningful product offerings. Bob has proved that published specifications (by manufacturers and vendors) are often inaccurate or incomplete. By weighing items on a repeatable, accurate, high resolution scale, Bob proved this over and over.
With the above as a baseline, here are some quick thoughts on some specific products.
===============================================
I carry this:
MontBell U.L.SS.Down Hugger #5
(Nick notes this bag has both a draft tube at side zipper, and adjustable good-fit hood, which acts like a draft collar)
MontBell's Super Stretch(tm) System provides a night's sleep unlike any other. Durable elastic stitching in the baffles of the sleeping bag provide unmatched freedom of movement while simultaneously drawing the insulation closer to your body minimizing dead space to be heated throughout the night.
Temperature Rating: 40 F / 4 C
High quality 800 fill power down
15-denier Ballistic Airlight fiber nylon
POLKATEX(r) DWR treatment
Max User Height: 5ft. 10in.
Inside Shoulder Girth: 53.2" - 70.9"
Inside Knee Girth: 42.8" - 57.1"
Stuffed Size: 4.8" x 9.5"
Size: R/ZIP/ L/ZIP
Color: IKBL(Ink Blue)
Weight: 1 lbs. 2 oz.
Fill Weight: 6 oz.
===============================================
this is what I might buy if I had it to do over again:
MontBell U.L.SS.Down Hugger #3
(Nick notes this bag has both a draft tube at side zipper, and a adjustable good-fit hood, which acts like a draft collar)
MontBell's Super Stretch(tm) System provides a night's sleep unlike any other. Durable elastic stitching in the baffles of the sleeping bag provide unmatched freedom of movement while simultaneously drawing the insulation closer to your body minimizing dead space to be heated throughout the night.
Temperature Rating: 30 F / -1 C
High quality 800 fill power down
15-denier Ballistic Airlight fiber nylon
POLKATEX(r) DWR treatment
Max User Height: 5ft. 10in.
Inside Shoulder Girth: 53.2" - 70.9"
Inside Knee Girth: 42.8" - 57.1"
Stuffed Size: 5.4" x 10.7"
Size: R/ZIP/ L/ZIP
Color: BASM(Balsam)
Weight: 1 lbs. 7 oz.
Fill Weight: 10 oz
==========================================
Big Agnes Horse Thief 35 Degree 725 Fill Power Sleeping Bag
http://www.gearforadventure.com/Big_Agnes_Horse_Thief_35_Degree_Down_Sleeping_Bag_p/1379.htm
Note that it concentrates all loft above (not underneath) the sleeper, so REQUIREs an appropriate sleeping pad because that is the insulation on the bottom of the bag.
The Big Agnes Horse Thief 35 Degree 725 Fill Power Sleeping Bag is a comfortable sleeping bag that uses the famous Big Agnes System. The system removes the insulation from the bottom of the sleeping bag since when compressed, insulation does a poor job. This lightens the bag significantly. Big Agnes then put a sleeve in it's place for your sleeping pad which provides the insulation. With the pad in the sleeve you can't slide or roll off your sleeping pad ever again! The Horse Thief, like all Big Agnes Sleeping Bags REQUIRE an appropriate sleeping pad because they are the insulation on the bottom of the bag.
The Horse Thief was named after a local mountain near Big Agnes Headquarters in Colorado.
The Big Agnes Horse Thief uses a 20" wide Mummy style sleeping pad.
Features
Design Features of the Big Agnes Horse Thief 35 degree sleeping bag:
Integrated pad sleeve. Never roll off your pad again
No-draft yoke seals around neck to keep cold air from sneaking in. Not available on our hoodless bags
60" YKK #8 zipper. Mate together any of our left and right zip bags with 60" zipper
Mummy shape decreases weight & packed size
Cotton storage sack & nylon stuff sack included
Built in pillow pocket holds a fleece or our Air Core Pillow
No-draft wedge insulates the connection between the bag and pad. Not available on our hoodless bags
No-draft zipper tube insulates along the length of the zipper. Not available on our hoodless bags
Shell fabric: WRM breathable, water resistant and wind proof nylon microfiber rip-stop
Interior lining: WRM breathable, water resistant and wind proof nylon microfiber rip-stop
LEFT OR RIGHT ZIPPER? When you are in the bag, on your back, the right zip will be on your right side, left zip on your left side.
Regular Horse Thief Sleeping Bag:
Weight - 1Lb. 8oz.
Fill Weight - 9.5oz.
Shoulder Girth - 67.5"
Hip Girth - 64"
Pad Length - 20"x72"
Long Horse Thief Sleeping Bag:
Weight - 1Lb. 11oz.
Fill Weight - 11.5oz.
Shoulder Girth - 72.5"
Hip Girth - 69"
Pad Length - 78"
==============================================
Lafuma Pro 650 Sleeping Bag:
This is the most similar of the 4 choices presented, to the UL bag that I use.
While it presumably does not have the Mont-Bell Super Stretch technology, nor the hollow shell threads, it is roughly the same weight.
Specs below say "no draft collar", but it must have some kind of way to prevent drafts from escaping past the head (drawcords at hood, etc). All these bags must have some sort of draft tube at side zipper, even if not explicitly specified.
http://www.backcountry.com/store/LAF0068/Lafuma-Pro-650-Sleeping-Bag-30-Degree-Down.html
Material: [Shell] water-repellent 20D polyamide; [Lining] water-repellent 20D polyamide
Insulation: 750-fill down
Shape: Mummy
Draft Collar: No
Max User Height: 6ft (183cm)
Stuff Size: 11 x 5in (28 x 13cm)
Stuff or Storage Sack: Stuff sack
Degree: 30F (-1C)
Weight: 1lb 7oz (650g)
==============================================
Lafuma Warm'n Light 800 Sleeping Bag:
The bag specs claim: [Shell] water-repellent 40D mini-ripstop nylon; [Lining] water-repellent 40D Tactel nylon
Specs below say "no draft collar", but it must have some kind of way to prevent drafts from escaping past the head (drawcords at hood, etc). All these bags must have some sort of draft tube at side zipper, even if not explicitly specified.
http://www.backcountry.com/store/LAF0070/Lafuma-Warmn-Light-800-Sleeping-Bag-30-Degree-Down.html
Material: [Shell] water-repellent 40D mini-ripstop nylon; [Lining] water-repellent 40D Tactel nylon
Insulation: 650-fill down
Shape: Mummy
Draft Collar: No
Max User Height: 6ft (183cm)
Stuff Size: 11 x 5in (28 x 12cm)
Stuff or Storage Sack: Stuff sack
Degree: 20F (-6C)
Weight: 1lb 12oz (800g)
==============================================
GoLite Ultra 20 Quilt:
Interesting (and perhaps challenging) for many of the same reasons as I detailed below
http://www.prolitegear.com/golite_ultra_20.html
A premium 800-fill goose down, 20ยบ sleep system that offers superior warmth, unmatched comfort and versatility for the ultra-lite purist. Waterproof Pertex(r) Endurance Arid Zones(tm) at the head and foot of the bag protect against condensation in critical areas. The comforter-style top can be attached directly to a sleep pad at variable girths for ideal temperature regulation.
Specifications
Weight: Short 1lb 1.7 oz, Reg 1lb 3.3 oz, Long 1lb 5.5 oz(Includes stuff sack)
==============================================
Rab Quantum Top Bag AR:
This *is* an interesting concept, *if* your body will allow you to get to sleep with only a single layer of Quantum fabric on the base. To be sure, smashing down the fill under the body seems a waste of transported weight. However, most humans do not lie flat against the pad while sleeping; where there are gaps, the bag's fill expands to, well... "fill" them. (on a related note, this is why I recommend the Z-Lite pad - divots for the fill to expand into). Bob and I have owned bags that permitted fill to be moved circumferentially in a baffle tube from under the body to on top. I felt this was an important design advantage.
http://www.prolitegear.com/rab_quantum_top_bag_ar.html
The Quantum Top Bag AR has 200g of down on top and round the foot plug and only a single layer of Quantum fabric on the base. It has a sleeping mat sleeve in the base which will fit a 3/4 or full length mat. The sleeping bag is designed to be used on adventure races, mountain marathons and minimalist backpacking trips in conjunction with an insulating pad that is best cut to the shape of the bag (or for the hard core use bubble wrap!)
Specifications Weight: 1 lb 5oz (Including Stuff Sack)
Most 3 season campers in the temperate zones (between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn) at elevations up to 10,000 Feet can safely focus on UL bags in the 18 - 25 oz range. This zone includes for three season UL overnight Sierra backpacking below 10000 feet.
With UL top and bottom layer garments (such as Mont-bell thermawrap, or Columbia Alpino II) plus a slime barrier lightweight poly-pro underwear layer, plus hat, gloves, socks (all worn inside the bag), plus 1.5" or more pad, and perhaps a Thermolite bivvy or TarpTent, you should be good down to at least 28 degrees F. If I wake up cold, I just eat more fat, and do pushups in the bag to re-warm. This happens to me less than one of 30 nights in the backcountry, which is a risk I am more than willing to accept, to achieve the weight savings. If I wanted to be damn sure I was good for lower temps, I would take a pair of down booties, a down hat, and more edible fat.
I use as a baseline what I have tested, and carried for two years now, (as referenced in the [DSOL] gear review). I got this Mont-bell bag at around $130. If they are not on sale right now, similar products are. It is normally possible to find something appropriate for under $150 on sale. If you want to change it out in a year or two, you should have no trouble recovering at least 50% of that expense via sale on CraigsList, or the local newspaper if advertising at the right time of year (late spring or early summer).
===============================================
Compare the weights of shell+stitching+zipper+drawcord to fill. For most bags in this range, the fill weight is 10 or 6 oz, yet the rest of the bag weighs 13 oz. (The difference in in these bags can be assumed to be entirely fill weight). This is precisely why, for UL purposes, more layers of shell are to be avoided, because they are heavy, and add *no* warmth. (This is why I am replacing my Thermawrap jacket + vest combo with a single garment - Alpino II jacket.)
The down fill in all these products can be assumed to have identical density. So the weight difference is going to be mainly from shell fabric, and other construction details (zipper length, presence of draft tubes, quantity of baffles and hence stitching weight). For fabric, "Denier" is the key specification. As I understand it, higher denier number basically means more threads per unit area, and hence more weight. Fabric of low denier weighs less, but is more vulnerable to rips and tears. Some manufacturers claim they has an advantage in thread technology, for example Mont-Bell claims their threads are hollow, so that distorts a denier comparison a little. I think learning about fabric technology is very important for choosing gear, precisely because the shells are a huge proportion garment weight!
prolitegear.com is an *excellent* vendor, for accurate specifications, and meaningful product offerings. Bob has proved that published specifications (by manufacturers and vendors) are often inaccurate or incomplete. By weighing items on a repeatable, accurate, high resolution scale, Bob proved this over and over.
With the above as a baseline, here are some quick thoughts on some specific products.
===============================================
I carry this:
MontBell U.L.SS.Down Hugger #5
(Nick notes this bag has both a draft tube at side zipper, and adjustable good-fit hood, which acts like a draft collar)
MontBell's Super Stretch(tm) System provides a night's sleep unlike any other. Durable elastic stitching in the baffles of the sleeping bag provide unmatched freedom of movement while simultaneously drawing the insulation closer to your body minimizing dead space to be heated throughout the night.
Temperature Rating: 40 F / 4 C
High quality 800 fill power down
15-denier Ballistic Airlight fiber nylon
POLKATEX(r) DWR treatment
Max User Height: 5ft. 10in.
Inside Shoulder Girth: 53.2" - 70.9"
Inside Knee Girth: 42.8" - 57.1"
Stuffed Size: 4.8" x 9.5"
Size: R/ZIP/ L/ZIP
Color: IKBL(Ink Blue)
Weight: 1 lbs. 2 oz.
Fill Weight: 6 oz.
===============================================
this is what I might buy if I had it to do over again:
MontBell U.L.SS.Down Hugger #3
(Nick notes this bag has both a draft tube at side zipper, and a adjustable good-fit hood, which acts like a draft collar)
MontBell's Super Stretch(tm) System provides a night's sleep unlike any other. Durable elastic stitching in the baffles of the sleeping bag provide unmatched freedom of movement while simultaneously drawing the insulation closer to your body minimizing dead space to be heated throughout the night.
Temperature Rating: 30 F / -1 C
High quality 800 fill power down
15-denier Ballistic Airlight fiber nylon
POLKATEX(r) DWR treatment
Max User Height: 5ft. 10in.
Inside Shoulder Girth: 53.2" - 70.9"
Inside Knee Girth: 42.8" - 57.1"
Stuffed Size: 5.4" x 10.7"
Size: R/ZIP/ L/ZIP
Color: BASM(Balsam)
Weight: 1 lbs. 7 oz.
Fill Weight: 10 oz
==========================================
Big Agnes Horse Thief 35 Degree 725 Fill Power Sleeping Bag
http://www.gearforadventure.com/Big_Agnes_Horse_Thief_35_Degree_Down_Sleeping_Bag_p/1379.htm
Note that it concentrates all loft above (not underneath) the sleeper, so REQUIREs an appropriate sleeping pad because that is the insulation on the bottom of the bag.
The Big Agnes Horse Thief 35 Degree 725 Fill Power Sleeping Bag is a comfortable sleeping bag that uses the famous Big Agnes System. The system removes the insulation from the bottom of the sleeping bag since when compressed, insulation does a poor job. This lightens the bag significantly. Big Agnes then put a sleeve in it's place for your sleeping pad which provides the insulation. With the pad in the sleeve you can't slide or roll off your sleeping pad ever again! The Horse Thief, like all Big Agnes Sleeping Bags REQUIRE an appropriate sleeping pad because they are the insulation on the bottom of the bag.
The Horse Thief was named after a local mountain near Big Agnes Headquarters in Colorado.
The Big Agnes Horse Thief uses a 20" wide Mummy style sleeping pad.
Features
Design Features of the Big Agnes Horse Thief 35 degree sleeping bag:
Integrated pad sleeve. Never roll off your pad again
No-draft yoke seals around neck to keep cold air from sneaking in. Not available on our hoodless bags
60" YKK #8 zipper. Mate together any of our left and right zip bags with 60" zipper
Mummy shape decreases weight & packed size
Cotton storage sack & nylon stuff sack included
Built in pillow pocket holds a fleece or our Air Core Pillow
No-draft wedge insulates the connection between the bag and pad. Not available on our hoodless bags
No-draft zipper tube insulates along the length of the zipper. Not available on our hoodless bags
Shell fabric: WRM breathable, water resistant and wind proof nylon microfiber rip-stop
Interior lining: WRM breathable, water resistant and wind proof nylon microfiber rip-stop
LEFT OR RIGHT ZIPPER? When you are in the bag, on your back, the right zip will be on your right side, left zip on your left side.
Regular Horse Thief Sleeping Bag:
Weight - 1Lb. 8oz.
Fill Weight - 9.5oz.
Shoulder Girth - 67.5"
Hip Girth - 64"
Pad Length - 20"x72"
Long Horse Thief Sleeping Bag:
Weight - 1Lb. 11oz.
Fill Weight - 11.5oz.
Shoulder Girth - 72.5"
Hip Girth - 69"
Pad Length - 78"
==============================================
Lafuma Pro 650 Sleeping Bag:
This is the most similar of the 4 choices presented, to the UL bag that I use.
While it presumably does not have the Mont-Bell Super Stretch technology, nor the hollow shell threads, it is roughly the same weight.
Specs below say "no draft collar", but it must have some kind of way to prevent drafts from escaping past the head (drawcords at hood, etc). All these bags must have some sort of draft tube at side zipper, even if not explicitly specified.
http://www.backcountry.com/store/LAF0068/Lafuma-Pro-650-Sleeping-Bag-30-Degree-Down.html
Material: [Shell] water-repellent 20D polyamide; [Lining] water-repellent 20D polyamide
Insulation: 750-fill down
Shape: Mummy
Draft Collar: No
Max User Height: 6ft (183cm)
Stuff Size: 11 x 5in (28 x 13cm)
Stuff or Storage Sack: Stuff sack
Degree: 30F (-1C)
Weight: 1lb 7oz (650g)
==============================================
Lafuma Warm'n Light 800 Sleeping Bag:
The bag specs claim: [Shell] water-repellent 40D mini-ripstop nylon; [Lining] water-repellent 40D Tactel nylon
Specs below say "no draft collar", but it must have some kind of way to prevent drafts from escaping past the head (drawcords at hood, etc). All these bags must have some sort of draft tube at side zipper, even if not explicitly specified.
http://www.backcountry.com/store/LAF0070/Lafuma-Warmn-Light-800-Sleeping-Bag-30-Degree-Down.html
Material: [Shell] water-repellent 40D mini-ripstop nylon; [Lining] water-repellent 40D Tactel nylon
Insulation: 650-fill down
Shape: Mummy
Draft Collar: No
Max User Height: 6ft (183cm)
Stuff Size: 11 x 5in (28 x 12cm)
Stuff or Storage Sack: Stuff sack
Degree: 20F (-6C)
Weight: 1lb 12oz (800g)
==============================================
GoLite Ultra 20 Quilt:
Interesting (and perhaps challenging) for many of the same reasons as I detailed below
http://www.prolitegear.com/golite_ultra_20.html
A premium 800-fill goose down, 20ยบ sleep system that offers superior warmth, unmatched comfort and versatility for the ultra-lite purist. Waterproof Pertex(r) Endurance Arid Zones(tm) at the head and foot of the bag protect against condensation in critical areas. The comforter-style top can be attached directly to a sleep pad at variable girths for ideal temperature regulation.
Specifications
Weight: Short 1lb 1.7 oz, Reg 1lb 3.3 oz, Long 1lb 5.5 oz(Includes stuff sack)
==============================================
Rab Quantum Top Bag AR:
This *is* an interesting concept, *if* your body will allow you to get to sleep with only a single layer of Quantum fabric on the base. To be sure, smashing down the fill under the body seems a waste of transported weight. However, most humans do not lie flat against the pad while sleeping; where there are gaps, the bag's fill expands to, well... "fill" them. (on a related note, this is why I recommend the Z-Lite pad - divots for the fill to expand into). Bob and I have owned bags that permitted fill to be moved circumferentially in a baffle tube from under the body to on top. I felt this was an important design advantage.
http://www.prolitegear.com/rab_quantum_top_bag_ar.html
The Quantum Top Bag AR has 200g of down on top and round the foot plug and only a single layer of Quantum fabric on the base. It has a sleeping mat sleeve in the base which will fit a 3/4 or full length mat. The sleeping bag is designed to be used on adventure races, mountain marathons and minimalist backpacking trips in conjunction with an insulating pad that is best cut to the shape of the bag (or for the hard core use bubble wrap!)
Specifications Weight: 1 lb 5oz (Including Stuff Sack)
Slpg bag clothing 28 deg test
Below embedded is a post I made to a Desert-Survivors.org listserve [DSOL] in 2007 about UL sleeping bags, and lightweight clothing. It contains specific reference to the Mont-bell bag I carry, and to the English-made lightweight wind layer garments I mentioned as "tennis ball sized".
This review was posted on [DSOL] by me 2007-03-31, so some of the links and prices might be stale. If I had it to do over again, I would probably buy a sleeping bag just one notch warmer, but that is not a big enough difference to motivate me to switch.
U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger #3 at 23 oz
$132 @
http://www.prolitegear.com/cgi-bin/prolitegear/montbell_ul_super_stretch_down_hugger_3_long_650_fill_sale
==============================================
This article is primarily about a low temp sleep temp test of insulation gear, but here are other major weight reduction factors:
I have put my pack on a diet over the last 24 months, resulting reduction to under 25 lbs for 5 day trips. Stove, bivvy, camera, 2 sleeping pads included, but water not included.
Ultralight sleeping bag (savings ~ 1.4 lbs)
Replaced all pile garments with ultralight garments providing equal-or-greater warmth. (savings ~ 1.7 lbs)
Replaced heavy cookset / stove with ultralight. (savings ~ 1 lb)
I don't carry a filter, using lighter weight iodine or tasteless Aqua Mira instead. (filters weigh over 1 lb)
I don't carry heavy nalgene water bottles, opting for lighter polycarbonate (soda bottle type) plastic that are smash to save space as they are emptied.
I don't carry a cup, bowl, or more than a spoon (I eat directly from the titanium pot)
I do have the food amounts dialed in quite accurately, but I always carry at least one extra day's rations. On trips more than 50 miles from vehicle stash, I may carry more extra rations.
Sometimes I carry only an 7 oz, $24 Thermalite bivy sack instead of a tent. (Adventure Medical Kits)
I own a 2 lb single-wall tent generously sized for two, including gear.
I don't carry a ground sheet, placing one of my two pads under the tent (when I take a tent)
I do carry compass, signal mirror, whistle, fire start kit, first aid kit, small sharp knife, blister kit, 50' of parachute cord.
I carry only one pair of boots, but two sets of socks. (no camp shoes or sandals).
On trips under 4 days, the weight savings of not carrying the 18 oz [stove, fuel, pot] is greater than the penalty of carrying moist food. But moist food takes up a lot more space in the pack.
======================================
I have put my pack on a diet over the last 24 months, resulting reduction to under 25 lbs for 5 day trips. Stove, bivvy, camera, 2 sleeping pads included, but water not included.
This article is primarily about a low temp sleep temp test of insulation gear, but at message bottom are other major weight reduction factors.
I took advantage of a cold snap up here to test of my new Montbell bag. Thought you might be interested... Especially because many Montbell bags are on sale at the moment. Look for "web specials" at:
http://www.montbell.com/america/
or more specifically,
http://www.montbell.com/america/products/outlet.html
I slept out (no tent, no bivvy) on my redwood deck (colder than on warmer ground) in windless 28 degree F weather comfortably in this 19 oz bag wearing:
Polypro base layer (polartech 100 equivalent)
Mont-Bell Thermawrap jacket and pants
Patagonia Puffball Vest
2 pr hiking sox
down booties (5 oz)
polypro skull cap
Go-Lite synthetic beanie
laying on:
Z-rest foam pad, plus
1" Insul-Mat blow-up (0.75 length)
I could have added:
Montane featherlite smock and pants, but didn't on that particular test
Below are links to details on items.
If I had it to do over again, I might choose the new Mont-bell down jacket and pants instead of the Thermawraps I bought.
If price were no consideration on the bag, I might have chosen: U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger #3 at 23 oz
Recent side-by-side comparison by a friend evaluating:
MontBell U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger #7
against
MontBell U.L. Alpine Down Hugger #5
showed that the latter had no advantage in measured loft, despite its claim of a temp rating implying comfort in colder conditions. Our belief is that the Super Stretch technology has a distinct warmth advantage, due to reduction in volume of air between bag and garments.
If I had it to do over again, I might choose the new Montbell synthetic bag, now that they have incorporated new ultralight linings. (Ref: MontBell Alpine Burrow Bag #7) The weight penalty for synthetic fill is down to just a few ounces. However, synthetic fill will not compress as far, and its useful life will be far less than down, due to the memory effect during compression. For folks who don't carry a tent, or camp near water, down can be a liability.
BTW, Montbell's size charts are not always correct. I am 6"-0" tall, and fit just fine in what they claim is a bag sized "regular length" for only up to 5'-10". I wear their Thermawrap jacket in medium, but needed size large Thermawrap pants.
Nick
"Does this smaller pack make my ass look fat as I sprint up the trail ahead of you?"
=====================================
MontBell America, Inc. U.L. Super Stretch Hugger #5 Sleeping Bag: 43 Degree Down Ink Blue, Reg $175.96 from:
http://www.backcountry.com/store/MTB0013/c/s/MontBell-America-Inc.-U.L.-Super-Stretch-Hugger-5-Sleeping-Bag-43-Degree-Down.html
mfg site:
https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_itiran.asp?cat=1101
Mont-Bell Thermawrap jacket
http://www.backcountry.com/store/MTB0015/MontBell-America-Inc.-Ultralight-Thermawrap-Jacket-Mens.html
mfg site:
https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_itiran.asp?cat=2002
Mont-Bell Thermawrap pants
http://www.backcountry.com/store/MTB0006/c11/s41/MontBell-America-Inc.-Ultralight-Thermawrap-Pants.html
mfg site:
https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_itiran.asp?cat=2003
Patagonia Puffball Vest
similar to:
http://www.backcountry.com/store/PAT0556/c11/s20/Patagonia-Micro-Puff-Zip-Vest-Mens.html
Montane featherlite smock
http://www.campsaver.com/product.php?pid=25025
mfg site:
http://www.montane.co.uk/productdetails.php?productid=40&rid=7
Montane featherlite pants
http://www.campsaver.com/product.php?pid=25030
mfg site:
http://www.montane.co.uk/productdetails.php
This review was posted on [DSOL] by me 2007-03-31, so some of the links and prices might be stale. If I had it to do over again, I would probably buy a sleeping bag just one notch warmer, but that is not a big enough difference to motivate me to switch.
U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger #3 at 23 oz
$132 @
http://www.prolitegear.com/cgi-bin/prolitegear/montbell_ul_super_stretch_down_hugger_3_long_650_fill_sale
==============================================
This article is primarily about a low temp sleep temp test of insulation gear, but here are other major weight reduction factors:
I have put my pack on a diet over the last 24 months, resulting reduction to under 25 lbs for 5 day trips. Stove, bivvy, camera, 2 sleeping pads included, but water not included.
Ultralight sleeping bag (savings ~ 1.4 lbs)
Replaced all pile garments with ultralight garments providing equal-or-greater warmth. (savings ~ 1.7 lbs)
Replaced heavy cookset / stove with ultralight. (savings ~ 1 lb)
I don't carry a filter, using lighter weight iodine or tasteless Aqua Mira instead. (filters weigh over 1 lb)
I don't carry heavy nalgene water bottles, opting for lighter polycarbonate (soda bottle type) plastic that are smash to save space as they are emptied.
I don't carry a cup, bowl, or more than a spoon (I eat directly from the titanium pot)
I do have the food amounts dialed in quite accurately, but I always carry at least one extra day's rations. On trips more than 50 miles from vehicle stash, I may carry more extra rations.
Sometimes I carry only an 7 oz, $24 Thermalite bivy sack instead of a tent. (Adventure Medical Kits)
I own a 2 lb single-wall tent generously sized for two, including gear.
I don't carry a ground sheet, placing one of my two pads under the tent (when I take a tent)
I do carry compass, signal mirror, whistle, fire start kit, first aid kit, small sharp knife, blister kit, 50' of parachute cord.
I carry only one pair of boots, but two sets of socks. (no camp shoes or sandals).
On trips under 4 days, the weight savings of not carrying the 18 oz [stove, fuel, pot] is greater than the penalty of carrying moist food. But moist food takes up a lot more space in the pack.
======================================
I have put my pack on a diet over the last 24 months, resulting reduction to under 25 lbs for 5 day trips. Stove, bivvy, camera, 2 sleeping pads included, but water not included.
This article is primarily about a low temp sleep temp test of insulation gear, but at message bottom are other major weight reduction factors.
I took advantage of a cold snap up here to test of my new Montbell bag. Thought you might be interested... Especially because many Montbell bags are on sale at the moment. Look for "web specials" at:
http://www.montbell.com/america/
or more specifically,
http://www.montbell.com/america/products/outlet.html
I slept out (no tent, no bivvy) on my redwood deck (colder than on warmer ground) in windless 28 degree F weather comfortably in this 19 oz bag wearing:
Polypro base layer (polartech 100 equivalent)
Mont-Bell Thermawrap jacket and pants
Patagonia Puffball Vest
2 pr hiking sox
down booties (5 oz)
polypro skull cap
Go-Lite synthetic beanie
laying on:
Z-rest foam pad, plus
1" Insul-Mat blow-up (0.75 length)
I could have added:
Montane featherlite smock and pants, but didn't on that particular test
Below are links to details on items.
If I had it to do over again, I might choose the new Mont-bell down jacket and pants instead of the Thermawraps I bought.
If price were no consideration on the bag, I might have chosen: U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger #3 at 23 oz
Recent side-by-side comparison by a friend evaluating:
MontBell U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger #7
against
MontBell U.L. Alpine Down Hugger #5
showed that the latter had no advantage in measured loft, despite its claim of a temp rating implying comfort in colder conditions. Our belief is that the Super Stretch technology has a distinct warmth advantage, due to reduction in volume of air between bag and garments.
If I had it to do over again, I might choose the new Montbell synthetic bag, now that they have incorporated new ultralight linings. (Ref: MontBell Alpine Burrow Bag #7) The weight penalty for synthetic fill is down to just a few ounces. However, synthetic fill will not compress as far, and its useful life will be far less than down, due to the memory effect during compression. For folks who don't carry a tent, or camp near water, down can be a liability.
BTW, Montbell's size charts are not always correct. I am 6"-0" tall, and fit just fine in what they claim is a bag sized "regular length" for only up to 5'-10". I wear their Thermawrap jacket in medium, but needed size large Thermawrap pants.
Nick
"Does this smaller pack make my ass look fat as I sprint up the trail ahead of you?"
=====================================
MontBell America, Inc. U.L. Super Stretch Hugger #5 Sleeping Bag: 43 Degree Down Ink Blue, Reg $175.96 from:
http://www.backcountry.com/store/MTB0013/c/s/MontBell-America-Inc.-U.L.-Super-Stretch-Hugger-5-Sleeping-Bag-43-Degree-Down.html
mfg site:
https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_itiran.asp?cat=1101
Mont-Bell Thermawrap jacket
http://www.backcountry.com/store/MTB0015/MontBell-America-Inc.-Ultralight-Thermawrap-Jacket-Mens.html
mfg site:
https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_itiran.asp?cat=2002
Mont-Bell Thermawrap pants
http://www.backcountry.com/store/MTB0006/c11/s41/MontBell-America-Inc.-Ultralight-Thermawrap-Pants.html
mfg site:
https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_itiran.asp?cat=2003
Patagonia Puffball Vest
similar to:
http://www.backcountry.com/store/PAT0556/c11/s20/Patagonia-Micro-Puff-Zip-Vest-Mens.html
Montane featherlite smock
http://www.campsaver.com/product.php?pid=25025
mfg site:
http://www.montane.co.uk/productdetails.php?productid=40&rid=7
Montane featherlite pants
http://www.campsaver.com/product.php?pid=25030
mfg site:
http://www.montane.co.uk/productdetails.php
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